A Day Without Illegal Aliens

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

Try yelling that at them while they have a strangle hold on our country's food supply

[Death_Dealer[CotC]]

Them being a supplier of food should not dictates wether or not they should be able to act illegally. We don't steal thier food we pay for it. Not saying you dark but to many people go off half cocked and get all but hurt over this subject. There is nothing cruel about wanting things done legally. The US is not trying to stop people from coming to our country, they are trying to stop people from coming illegally and I see no problem with that. I don't pretend to know a lot I dont. Without law and order (not the TV series) being enforced we would be a third world country.

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

I think you misunderstood what I said... I mean the workers in this country not the affairs of our international trade system with foreign countries.

So far, the US is self sufficient with food, but if we make a mistake with all the illegals that are in the country... we would become as dangerously dependent on imported food as we are on oil.

[Dataspel]

Just an observation...
The illegal alien problem has been around for literally decades.
Ask yourself why it is suddenly making headlines?

Perhaps the Republican masters of strategy have determined
that Iraq and homeland security will not play well this election.
So instead of running against the Democrats, they are running
against the Bad Republicans. Who are the Bad Republicans?
They are the extremes - the pragmatic business owners who
hire the illegals, and they are the hard right fringe that want
to build a wall across the border.

Before you get all hot and bothered about this issue, consider...
The Republicans control both houses and the presidency. They
have the power to resolve this any way they want. Maybe they
don't really want it resolved until after the next few elections,
if at all.

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

That's in one of the articles/essays I linked earlier

[Death_Dealer[CotC]]

[quote="D.A.R.K.[CotC]"]I think you misunderstood what I said... I mean quote]

I do that sometimes

I do know that we the people in general are easily munipulated by the Gov.

Those that have the power to do something have the obligation to do something, but as time goes by we the people become lazier and have less free will. We become more reliant on the Gov. to tell us how things are and why. It seems with each generation we give the Gov. more control and care less about what happens. Yes from time to time people will pick a issue and say thats BS, but it stops there. Like oil companies raising fuel prices under a white flag saying there are shortages, yet rake in multibillion dollar profits. The Gov. makes money off of it as well, the whole illegal thing could be there to take the focus off of being @ss raped by the cost of fuel. I think the underlying problem is the Gov. tightening the noose on controlling the American people.

Sorry if I rambled. All I am trying to say is if "We the People" stood up as a unit and told the Gov. to hold on and back off your not looking out for our best interest and something needs to change. Right now Americans are more like "Me the Individual". In history people stood together said this isn't right lets change it and did. Now people say thats BS we should do something, Oh! wait my favorite show is on. If the American people don't wake up soon we will lose all control. I only say this because all these issues are related.

[Dataspel]

Interesting article....

5/10/2006

U.S. Tipping Mexico to Minuteman Patrols
Story Courtesy of Inland Valley Daily Bulletin
by Sara A. Carter, Staff Writer

While Minuteman civilian patrols are keeping an eye out for illegal border crossers, the U.S. Border Patrol is keeping an eye out for Minutemen -- and telling the Mexican government where they are.
According to three documents on the Mexican Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site, the U.S. Border Patrol is to notify the Mexican government as to the location of Minutemen and other civilian border patrol groups when they participate in apprehending illegal immigrants -- and if and when violence is used against border crossers.

A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman confirmed the notification process, describing it as a standard procedure meant to reassure the Mexican government that migrants' rights are being observed.

"It's not a secret where the Minuteman volunteers are going to be," Mario Martinez said Monday.

"This ... simply makes two basic statements -- that we will not allow any lawlessness of any type, and that if an alien is encountered by a Minuteman or arrested by the Minuteman, then we will allow that government to interview the person."

Minuteman members were not so sanguine about the arrangement, however, saying that reporting their location to Mexican officials nullifies their effectiveness along the border and could endanger their lives.

"Now we know why it seemed like Mexican officials knew where we were all the time," said Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. "It's unbelievable that our own government agency is sending intelligence to another country. They are sending intelligence to a nation where corruption runs rampant, and that could be getting into the hands of criminal cartels.

"They just basically endangered the lives of American people."

Officials with the Mexican consulate in Washington, D.C., could not be reached for comment Monday.

Martinez said reporting the location of immigrant apprehensions to consulate representatives is common practice if an illegal immigrant requests counsel or believes they have been mistreated.

"Once an illegal alien is apprehended, they can request counsel," he said. "We have to give their counsel the information about their apprehension, and that includes where they are apprehended, whether a Minuteman volunteer spotted them or a citizen."

Martinez said Mexico's official perception of the civilian groups is that they are vigilantes, a belief the Border Patrol hoped to allay by entering into the cooperative agreement.

One of the documents on the Web site, "Actions of the Mexican Government in Relation to the Activities of Vigilante Groups," states that Mexican consulate representatives stay in close contact with Border Patrol chiefs to ensure the safety of migrants trying to enter the U.S., those being detained and the actions of all "vigilantes" along the border.

"The Mexican consul in Presidio also contacted the chief of the Border Patrol in the Marfa Sector to solicit his cooperation in case they detect any activity of `vigilantes,' and was told to immediately contact the consulate if there was," according to the document.

"Presidio" refers to Presidio County, Texas, which is in the Big Bend region and a gateway to northern Mexico.

The document also describes a meeting with San Diego Border Patrol sector chief Darryl Griffen.

"(Griffen) said that the Border Patrol will not permit any violence or any actions contrary to the law by the groups, and he is continuously aware of (the volunteer organizations') operations," according to the document. "Mr. Griffen reiterated to the undersecretary his promise to notify the General Consul right away when the vigilantes detain or participate in the detention of any illegal Mexicans."

The documents specifically named the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps and its patrols, which began monitoring Arizona's southern border in April 2005, as well as Friends of the Border Patrol, a Chino-based nonprofit.

TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing more than 10,000 Border Patrol agents, said agents have complained for years about the Mexican consulate's influence over the agency.

"It worries me (that the Mexican government) seems to be unduly influencing our enforcement policies. That's not a legitimate role for any foreign nation," Bonner said, though he added, "It doesn't surprise me."

Border Patrol agents interviewed by the Daily Bulletin said they have been asked to report to sector headquarters the location of all civilian volunteer groups, but to not file the groups' names in reports if they spot illegal immigrants.

"Last year an internal memo notified all agents not to give credit to Minuteman volunteers or others who call in sightings of illegal aliens," said one agent, who spoke on the condition he not be identified. "We were told to list it as a citizen call and leave it at that. Many times, we were told not to go out to Minuteman calls."

The document also mentions locations of field operations of Friends of the Border Patrol, which patrolled the San Diego sector from June to November 2005. Mexican officials had access to the exact location of the group founded by Andy Ramirez, which ran its patrols from the Rough Acre Ranch, a private property in McCain Valley.

Ramirez said that for safety reasons, he disclosed the location of his ranch patrol only to San Diego Border Patrol and law enforcement officials. The group did not apprehend or spot any illegal migrants in that area.

"We did not release this information ... to the media or anyone else," Ramirez said. "We didn't want to publicize that information. But there it is, right on the Mexican government's Web site, and our government gave it to them."

Visit the Mexican Government's Secretary of Foreign Relations Web Site. Third Report on the Activities of Vigilantes. http://www.sre.gob.mx/eventos/minuteman/reporte3.htm


Talk Back on immigration: Beyond Borders Blog
Beyond Borders Special Section: Complete current immigration news, photos, video, audio and documents

[Death_Dealer[CotC]]

interesting

[Neophyte]

It is interesting. Americans have a constitutional right to arms, and that's obviously for defense. American's have a right to protect their soil from foreign and domestic issues alike. It's funny that the BP is working with some other government to cloud the rights of citizens. Its as if they're saying, "We don't condone the actions of the minute men, but were not going to do anything to stop it. Here is where they're at. Do what you like with this information."

[BD]

Eat me dark.

3% of illegals are in the farming...


19% of the total industry (including fishing and forestry)


you said 60-90 (WTF??) 19 is closer to 3 than 60-90 so I win.

Now from the I have more links than you department...
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/46.pdf
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/55.pdf
http://www.cis.org/articles/1996/back296.htm
http://ncseonline.org/NLE/CRSreports/04Feb/95-712.pdf
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/04 ... _13_06.txt
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1783169
http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/pu ... 3745.shtml
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/ar ... jan04.html
http://www.arng.army.mil/history/Consti ... t.asp?ID=6
http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/900908 ... 111605.pdf
http://giannini.ucop.edu/Mex_USMigration.pdf


"The Bracero program ended in 1964, and farm wages began to rise faster than nonfarm wages. There was a wave of labor-saving mechanization that, contrary to predictions, led in some commodities to increased production and lower costs. The best example of how the higher farm wages of the mid-1960s transformed the production of a commodity occurred in the tomatoes used to make catsup, known as processing tomatoes. In 1960, over 80 percent of the 45,000 peak harvest workers employed to pick the 2.2 million ton processing tomato crop in California were Braceros (Martin and Olmstead, 1985).
In arguing that the Bracero program should be continued, farmers predicted that they would have to follow their Braceros to Mexico to get their tomatoes picked. The California Farmer’s July 6, 1963 predictions were typical: if the Bracero program ends, "the (tomato) industry is in general agreement that the state will see a tremendous drop in tomato acreage for 1964…from 177,200 in 1963. All agree that the state will never again reach the [level of production as] when there was a guaranteed supplemental labor force in the form of the bracero." (p5).2 The article continued that: "the industry sees no hope of filling the (labor) gap in tomatoes from the domestic ranks even if competition for workers drives wages up to the average factory wage." (p47).
Contrary to expectations, the harvest was mechanized rapidly and production of processing tomatoes in California expanded. Plant scientists and engineers collaborated to develop tomatoes that ripened simultaneously and a machine to cut and shake ripe tomatoes from the plants in one pass through the field. Four decades after the Bracero program ended, 5,000 workers ride machines in
California to sort 12 million tons of tomatoes, that is, a ninth as many workers harvest six times more tomatoes."

3 cheers for industry.

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

If you really want me to, I will eat you BD, b/c you twisted my words again, and I'm going to repeat myself:

You are looking at what percent of the illegal immigrant population is in the industry...

TRY LOOKING AT THE PERCENTAGE OF WORKERS IN A SPECIFIC INDUSTRY THAT ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! THOSE 3% OF ILLEGALS IN THE FARMING INDUSTRY THAT YOU CLAIM MAKE UP 60-90% OF THAT INDUSTRY!!!

[BD]

If you really want me to, I will eat you BD, b/c you twisted my words again, and I'm going to repeat myself:

You are looking at what percent of the illegal immigrant population is in the industry...

TRY LOOKING AT THE PERCENTAGE OF WORKERS IN A SPECIFIC INDUSTRY THAT ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! THOSE 3% OF ILLEGALS IN THE FARMING INDUSTRY THAT YOU CLAIM MAKE UP 60-90% OF THAT INDUSTRY!!!

I hear I'm good with kraut.

3% of illegals are in the farming/fishing/forestry industry and they make up 19% ofthe farming, fishing, and dorestry industry. I will now actually look at your links and try to see where you are getting this 60-90% from.

ack... pain

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

kraut huh... is that the same as saurkraut? that stuff is.... really weird tasting

I was beginning to get worried when I couldn't even find my own info anymore... I think it's in the first and second link

[D.A.R.K.[CotC]]

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/t ... IC_ID=5884

Here's an interesting discussion about that you could look at.

[BD]

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/t ... IC_ID=5884

Here's an interesting discussion about that you could look at.

hehe, nice site. I had to get involved when they stepped on the military tho.