Campquake Senate

I'd buy that Neo, but the recording I saw was filmed from 3KM (?) away from the New Jersey shore. You can clearly see a dust cloud after the explosion... at the bottom of the building. It's on one side. A few explosions later and there's a dust cloud at ground level... from the other side.

the fire department recordings have explosions from floors 7-8, then from 10-13, substantially below the impact. Airtight elevator... class A building... Doesn't make sense.

BD wrote:2- you said all of thos people are not bright

The word "all" is not in anything I wrote.

The words I should have used: "the overwhelming majority".

Neophyte wrote: BD, I wonder if some of the explosions that the firemen heard were not just structures collapsing before the big collapse. I think it is entirely possible that different sections of the floor could have fell before the entire building.

Eyewitness recollections are notoriously unreliable. If hard data actually existed, rather than innuendo, it would be easier to swallow the theories. And how convenient for the theorists that the gov't is hiding it all. Wrapped up neatly in a self-contained package.

Occam's razor...

Nemesis[CotC] wrote:

Neophyte wrote: BD, I wonder if some of the explosions that the firemen heard were not just structures collapsing before the big collapse. I think it is entirely possible that different sections of the floor could have fell before the entire building.

Eyewitness recollections are notoriously unreliable. If hard data actually existed, rather than innuendo, it would be easier to swallow the theories. And how convenient for the theorists that the gov't is hiding it all. Wrapped up neatly in a self-contained package.

Occam's razor...

That is so true. Pointed out even in the documentry, was that people could not agree on what hit the building. Person A would say, It was small, like a missile. Person B would say, It was a C-130 cargo plane, and had no windows. Person C would say, It looked like a private jet. Person D would say It was large like a 747, but I didn't recognise the paint scheme. And person E would say, It looked like a passenger plane carrying an underbody pod or attachment of some kind. And they would all be talking about the same thing.

I don't really see much out of the ordinary with windows blowing out below the collapsing building. You have to consider the air pressure created by the floors above falling downwards. That air has to escape someplace, and a weak window seems like a really good place to me.
If they were controlled explosions, I don't think the dust cloud would have been shot out as stright and far as they were.

And though the elevators may be airtight, even an airtight elevator couldn't possibly be made to handle that type of air pressure pushing on it.

granted there are alot of "unexplained" things that happened. But I don't really view that as one of them.

The trick is that it fell too fast, the structure of the bottom half of the tower should have held the top up longer -- somehow the entire tower's underlying structure was weakened by a plane hitting the top few floors?

Makes no sense.

The lack of answers will keep this argument alive for many many many years.

Baron[CotC] wrote:The trick is that it fell too fast, the structure of the bottom half of the tower should have held the top up longer -- somehow the entire tower's underlying structure was weakened by a plane hitting the top few floors?

Makes no sense.

The lack of answers will keep this argument alive for many many many years.

Didn't some survivors say that floors were entirely closed off above the crash, and people were leaping out of the building above the crashed sections because they had not other way out? I think those buildings took more serious damage then the outside was showing.

The argument about the heat of the fire not being sufficent to cause the collapse is a fair one. Jet fuel melting steel? Maybe not. But, you probably don't need to liquify the metal with all the added pressure and weight of the building. Softening the metal it so that it can bend, I think that is possible, and should be enough to start the movement. We all ready know concrete is very brittle and will shatter when you apply enough force.

But I can't even pretend that I know what happened inside those buildings. I'm guessing that something caused a floor to collapse on each building. Perhaps a 757 maybe? The weight above the collapsing floor acted like a 200,000 ton hammer dropping on the rest of the building. Something like a Karate expert breaking 15 bricks. It's about energy, weight and momentum. The destruction of each following floor added to the weight.

Not only that but how do OLDER buildings burn for 13 to 20 times longer than the towers (of which were constructed to absorb a plane hit) & still not fall to the ground?? I'm willing to listen to any sound ideas but thats the trouble there probably isnt any! Did you see those building fall? Can one say DEMOLITION? This in my opininion is the most likely sound idea or as i put it earlier ASSUMPTION.

Neo i could even accept the reasoning of weakend structures but you know what as in my above post the time frame was not long enough to do that! You have to account for the fact that most likely all of the fuel in the wings was the fire clouds that we observed so that wouldn't be burning in the buildings. Whatever was left in the main body of the plane cause those super structures to collapse in under an hour??????? Think about this folks!

SLIDER wrote:Neo i could even accept the reasoning of weakend structures but you know what as in my above post the time frame was not long enough to do that! You have to account for the fact that most likely all of the fuel in the wings was the fire clouds that we observed so that wouldn't be burning in the buildings. Whatever was left in the main body of the plane cause those super structures to collapse in under an hour??????? Think about this folks!

Well, apparently, what ever fuel remaining in the plane was enough to bring down a tower, because it was certainly would have been hot enough to detinate any demolition bomb in the first few minutes.

Click me...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5274&q=911

a 15 minute video about the speed of the fall, the demolitions and the FIRE DEPARTMENT discussing the floors going like boom boom boom... think firemen have seen a building collapse? They talk about bombs
This also includes the tapes of the fire fighters discussing the explosions I have mentioned earlier. Watch this before you reply. watch it with an open mind. It's 15 minutes long.

There's a longer video that goes into detail about buildings that are olderr that have had the top 20 floors collapse but nothing below the fireline... and fires that burned for 24hours in buildings that didn't collapse.

Looking for it...

Meanwhile, this should occupy you.
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

THe part about the bombs in that last video was pretty weak.

Read this:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=1&c=y

The part about the freefall is pretty weak too because they're assuming the distance of the ball drops in the graphic on the website is equal to the speed of the distant building in the video. The freefall speed would be equal to the distance traveled multiplied against time. If the ball was adjusted to the distance of the video, I bet the accuracy of the fall could be better determined.

warf wrote:THe part about the bombs in that last video was pretty weak.

Read this:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=1&c=y

Isn't that exactly what I just said?

Kinda sad that all those firefighters would lie about the BOMB EXPLOSIONS that they SUPPOSEDLY heard huh?? Musta been the 20L water bottles blowing off the coolers in the building that or better yet the white out bottles exploding as the pressure crushed them from the excessive weight! DOH wait the building was still standing when they heard these bomb explosions?? HMMMMMMMMM wonder what was going on? Kinda blows the theory of the weight of upper floors collapsing causing the building to desintegrate! NO??????

I dont know what is harder for you folks to believe that the conspiracy theories could actually be true & that your HERO republican GRAND POOBAH could be in any way involved with all this or the fact that they were willing to have the casualties they did so that ehy could go into the middle east!