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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:45 pm
by Akira
Buzzed wrote:
RedBaron wrote:
Neophyte wrote:do Canadian's really leave their front doors unlocked?!
Yes, the door to my house hasnt been locked in 5 years or so that I can recall.

Don't go tell anyone though. 8)
My doors are left unlock, and i leave the keys in the ignition of my truck that I park in the garage and use every day.

And my friends, that is the truth!
And I have a pet polar bear in my backyard too. I guess with an igloo, being made out of snow and all, no reason to lock the door. :lol:

Sorry, not a jab at all my U.S. friends, but I met people in Florida who truly thought we had polar bears and lived in an igloo. :lol:

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:59 pm
by Buzzed
Akira wrote:
Buzzed wrote:
RedBaron wrote: Yes, the door to my house hasnt been locked in 5 years or so that I can recall.

Don't go tell anyone though. 8)
My doors are left unlock, and i leave the keys in the ignition of my truck that I park in the garage and use every day.

And my friends, that is the truth!
And I have a pet polar bear in my backyard too. I guess with an igloo, being made out of snow and all, no reason to lock the door. :lol:

Sorry, not a jab at all my U.S. friends, but I met people in Florida who truly thought we had polar bears and lived in an igloo. :lol:
You are not the only one, it IS truly amazing. but then again look at all those red necks down south, buck teeth, inbreading, .........

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:50 pm
by Baron[CotC]
Careful what you say about rednecks, I live in Alberta -- I'm surrounded by em heh heh

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:06 pm
by D.A.R.K.[CotC]
Well, it seems that things have died down in this area, so I extend my thanks to all those who posted, this paper will come out quite nicely.

Thank you again :D

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:04 pm
by BD
I don't know where my smarter half is and I've been unavailable for a while but in Warf's absence...

There is good info here...
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
specifics here...
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
and here...
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

Image

I like this one
Homicides by Weapon Type
Year - Handgun/Other gun/Knife/Blunt object/Other weapon
1976 - 8,651 / 3,328 / 3,343 / 912 / 2,546
2002 - 8,286 / 2,538 / 2,018 / 773 / 2,588

The other side can be found here:
http://www.nraila.org (I suggest the "issues" link)
There are others... google around.

I dunno about these
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/guns/
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/gunlaw.htm



Note: when looking at the sites here or the "anti-gun" sites, look for references. If the information is from NRA or bradycampaign.org it's probably biased one way or the other. You will find some stuff that is from a neutral party that supports one position or the other.... and that's the gold nugget in the shite.

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:22 pm
by warf
Somehow, there should be a rule about posting gun control topics whilst the resident gun zealot is off slaying Bambi!

BTW, I'll post a full trip report soon, but the long story short is that I harvested a doe with the rifle, and we ate some of the tenderloins tonight, yummy.

Look, I own many handguns. Are they easy to get in NC??? Well, there are only two ways to legally buy one here.

#1 You go to your local sheriff's office, and pay $5 bucks for purchase permit, which incude a background check. Once you have the permit, you can go to a dealer, and give the Sherrif's form to the dealer, fill out a 4473 form (Are you a fugitive from justice? YES/NO/DUH questionaire. This is typically called "an over the counter sale from a license dealer"

This info is then called into the ATF (all Things Fun :D ) who do another check

Now, If I wanted to buy a pistol from my dear friend, Cooter, I would still have to obtain a permit from the sheriff, and give this form to Cooter, who would have to maintain it indefinetely.

#2 You obtain a concealed handgun permit. This requires you to sumbit to an FBI background check, be fingerprintedd, take a course, qualify on a shooting, and written test. Tital coast for this perimit is about $250. and it is good for five years.

This permit lets me carry a concealed handgun on my person or in my vehicle, subject to certain conditions, like can't carry at a parade. funeral, a place you have to pay admission, school, state building, place that sells alchol for on premise consumption. Ther ar more restrictions on where I can carry, but I won't get into them.


So your original queston is:

"Does gun control protect or harm people, and does owning firearms, handguns in particular, make society safer?"

If by gun control, you mean that law abiding citizens are hindered from owning them, then yes, it harms people.

The answer from part 2 of the question is that as long a sthe people owning the handguns are law abiding citizens, then yes, it does make society safer.


And your restated question is:

Gun Control: Are handguns too easily acquired, and are they causing more harm because of it?


Each State has different rules, see the rules for NC above. As a law abiding citizen, I have followed all of the laws, and they are not easily acquired. However, the unsavory element will not fill out a form, or get an Concealed Permit before stealing a handgun,or buying one from the street.
D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote: When private people own firearms, you'll never find one that will knowingly and willingly shoot at someone or kill someone because it goes through their head as just being wrong. People will hesitate, or rather just threaten them with the gun to see if they run away or what-not. The thing that goes through my mind is the fear of getting incarcirated for shooting or killing somebody, and I would never be able to do it, unless under extreme pressure of death to myself and all those around me, and even so I would think twice.
My friend, I will absolutley drop the hammer on a bad guy that is presenting a deadly threat to me or my family, in fact, this is the only time I will.

We have a "duty to retreat" when confronted with a deadly threat here. If you cannot retreat, you can then use deadly force.
D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote: Would the courts be on your side if you took a shotgun or pistol to a man just because he broke into your home and could be armed and dangerous? Sometimes the proof isn't there, and the law often resides on the side of victim, even if they were committing a crime.
In the state of NC, this is considered a deadly threat, and you are authorized to use deadly force to stop the threat.


Now, my guns have never killed a human being, and they are unlikley ever to kill somone. BUT, if the situation presents itself, and I must eliminate a deadly threat o myselef or my family, I can and will use them to do so.

Sorry for the long post!

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:55 am
by D.A.R.K.[CotC]
Its about time you got back, I was waiting for the long commentaries from our local gun collector :P

Lets see. I'm gonna start off with this Warf. Like you said, that's all for NC, which does not apply for the other 49 states in the US where gun control laws are even stricter or a heck of a lot more lax.

You don't have to be a law abiding citizen to make society safe. More often than not it is the law abiding citizens that are affected, and in numerous methods. When a burglar breaks into your home, having a gun in your home doesn't make you safer, in fact it could be even worse if they find the gun or manage to get it off of you. If you want I can also state numerous stories of law abiding, normal families, that have been affected by guns that they own themselves. I can give you incidents where the children get their hands on the guns and kill somebody, or even more than one person. I can also give you incidents where the actual owner of the firearm took the gun and went to investigate "a strange noise" in the house and found out that it was his child and ended up shooting and killing the child out of panic and fear.

So are law abiding citizens perfect? Duh, no.

And like someone else mentioned, the non-law abiding people will not go and purchas a permit and buy a gun legally. Certainly they will get it off the streets.

BTW, isn't there a difference between deadly threat and unnecesary force?


BD, I have tried to get some sort of facts or evidence for the opposing side, but like you said it's all biased oppinions, denying the opposition, or some sort of "fact" with nothing to back it up at all. Some of those sites you listed are actually on my list of references that I used, or ones that I ignored because they made no sense.

*phew* sudden charge of comments here, woot, btw, this paper is due next monday so I'm still adding to it.

Re: Help out a fellow student!! - Gun Control

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:19 am
by BD
Careful that you aren't using the bias from the pro control side... {STEREOTYPE WARNING}note, if you take the pro-gun side, your liberal teacher might give you a lesser grade.{/STEREOTYPE WARNING}
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This gives a nice summary of state and federal laws as of 2k2
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ssprfs02.pdf
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Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

-a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
-a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
-family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

i got that here... {CLIK} heh good luck
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IMO...
-Gun control protects criminals who view themselves as above the laws that are put in place to prevent them from getting them.

-Gun control harms those people who would use a gun to protect themselves, or who wish to x-rcize their 2nd ammendment right.

-Legally owning firearms makes society safer. Every home purchase should come with a shotgun in my opinion. Hand guns work also.

disclamer:
Life member of NRA
Member of Gun owners of America
Life member of VFW
Member of American Legion
Member of Infantry Assoc.
Owner of 30 firearms in California... 3 of them registered, all of them hidden