Campquake Senate

I hate making multiple posts, but here's an interesting essay/article I found on the second amendment.

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndobs.html

D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote:... So where's the problem? In the people of course. To fix that, it would sound like a totalitarian gov't, which wouldn't be very good. There's many alternatives, but have we ever tried any? ...
So then what can we do?

California has an act passed that prohibits the ownership and sale to someone who has an identified mental disfunction. ( http://www.pai-ca.org/pubs/542501.htm ) I don' tknow what the federal government has, maybe something similar? It suggests that someone who attempts suicide will not own or purchase a gun. Nor will someone who admits to making threats of physical voilence. It also includes sex offenders, the criminally insance, and people who are incompentent to stand trial. It's not perfect, and we can throw "what-if's" at each other all day... But it's there.

Neophyte wrote:

D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote:... So where's the problem? In the people of course. To fix that, it would sound like a totalitarian gov't, which wouldn't be very good. There's many alternatives, but have we ever tried any? ...
So then what can we do?

California has an act passed that prohibits the ownership and sale to someone who has an identified mental disfunction. ( http://www.pai-ca.org/pubs/542501.htm ) I don' tknow what the federal government has, maybe something similar? It suggests that someone who attempts suicide will not own or purchase a gun. Nor will someone who admits to making threats of physical voilence. It also includes sex offenders, the criminally insance, and people who are incompentent to stand trial. It's not perfect, and we can throw "what-if's" at each other all day... But it's there.

ALL FOR NAUGHT! In most cases the “bad” guys aren’t buying their guns off a store shelf!!!!!!!

D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote:...here's an interesting essay/article I found on the second amendment.

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndobs.html

I wouldn't give much weight to this article. It is based upon
a false assumption - that the purpose of the citizen militia is to
resist a tyrannical government. This was not the case in
America, and IMHO has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

The colonial militias were organized so that the local colonists
could defend themselves from Indian and French incursions.
They had the secondary purpose of serving as a semi-trained
pool for British military action against the Indians and Canada.
The militia's purpose was to support the British, not fight them.

Starting in 1775, the militias were used to augment and support
the new American Army against the British, who were the new
enemy.

I think the 2nd amendment was intended to ensure that
citizens could continue to own guns for protection of self,
community and nation, not to protect citizens against their
own government.

Katrina is an example where it is evident that Americans
can still justify arming themselves for protection of
family and property until civil order is restored.

I haven't read the essay yet, I found it and threw that post in there as the bell was ringing, so I had no time to look at it.

When private people own firearms, you'll never find one that will knowingly and willingly shoot at someone or kill someone because it goes through their head as just being wrong. People will hesitate, or rather just threaten them with the gun to see if they run away or what-not. The thing that goes through my mind is the fear of getting incarcirated for shooting or killing somebody, and I would never be able to do it, unless under extreme pressure of death to myself and all those around me, and even so I would think twice. Sure you can argue it was out of self defense, but even so people are still convicted. Like the robber who sued the woman he was robbing for having an unsafe skylight in the house that he fell through and broke his leg. He won, so which side does the law reside? Would the courts be on your side if you took a shotgun or pistol to a man just because he broke into your home and could be armed and dangerous? Sometimes the proof isn't there, and the law often resides on the side of victim, even if they were committing a crime.

Our system isn't perfect like some of you said. Far from perfect if you ask me.

D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote:Should I just go watch Bowling for Columbine or something?

Not unless you know the data being presented before hand is skewed horribly, and that the film is edited in such a way as to put forward one and only one point of view.

If your search is truely for an objective opinion avoid political documentarians.

Buzzed wrote:ALL FOR NAUGHT! In most cases the “bad” guys aren’t buying their guns off a store shelf!!!!!!!

Thank you! This is so true and so overlooked its disgusting.

Aide-de-Camp wrote:

D.A.R.K.[CotC] wrote:Should I just go watch Bowling for Columbine or something?

Not unless you know the data being presented before hand is skewed horribly, and that the film is edited in such a way as to put forward one and only one point of view.

If your search is truely for an objective opinion avoid political documentarians.

Aide, are you in the Charlton Heston fan-boy club? I thought the movie was fairly entertaining. I especially liked how you can get a gun if you sign to create a bank account. What a novel concept! And do Canadian's really leave their front doors unlocked?!

Neophyte wrote:do Canadian's really leave their front doors unlocked?!

Yes, the door to my house hasnt been locked in 5 years or so that I can recall.

Don't go tell anyone though.

Reminds me of the good old days in Canda...

I've had to change my topic, or rather narrow it down to thus:

Gun Control: Are handguns too easily acquired, and are they causing more harm because of it?

Maybe this will help to focus this broad argument going on here. But I commend you all, really in depth thoughts here.

As for thatmoviethatmustnotbenamed by Moore, I admit it only presents a one sided argument, but you can't deny that it is factual for almost all of it. It's real life issues that can't be ignored, and I don't see much of an argument from the other side besides the "It's my right by the constitution" thing. And it will remain a right unless the courts change it in a controversial decision, which who knows when or if it would happen.

This is for the canadians, enjoy

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/TheCas ... ntrol.html

What a surprise... A kid just used a .22 handgun to shoot staff at a high school. I'm so glad we have handguns in the good ole' USA.

http://www.volunteertv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4091354

You must go out and rent or add to your Netflix "Michael Moore Hates America."

"The tables are turned on revolutionary filmmaker Michael Moore in this documentary by Michael Wilson, who believes that America isn't as polarized and troubled as Moore makes out to be in his movies. Taking a page from the legend himself, Wilson tries to track down Moore for an interview, employing techniques the cineaste has employed himself."

In this movie the producer actually GOES TO CANADA and tries to open doors AT RANDOM. Door after door after door after door is locked.

The producer goes to the same bank Moore went to and asked about the promotion; no they don't have guns laying around, and you actually have to go through an extensive process for obtaining one, and this does include a background check and the creation of a banking account.

What Moore did was wonderful theatrics. I've seen all of his movies and if I took them at face value I'd be convinced what I saw and was presented was truth, but I would be deceived.

His movies are cut and pasted. For instance, the bank scene was impromptu; he arrived asked questions and then left. Weeks later after obtaining the gun, and wearing the same clothes he returns and takes possession of his account information and weapon. The film is then spliced and it appears he did the entire transaction in one day.

The independant movie I cited are amongst many that Moore haters and Moore fans should see. They provide an objective rather than subjectively laced and highly liberal content put forward by Moore as a documentary, which could not be farther from the truth.

There is also one on the Iraq War called "Burried in the Sand." The movie shows actual footage of Iraqi tank brigades being dug up from remote desert areas, jets, weaponry, and other items. There is footage of the way Iraqi Sadam guards treated prisoners in Abu Whatever, and most loose heads and arms, are thrown off buildings, hurt beyond belief.

We must be very careful what we believe from the modern media. To do anything less would leave us in a world that believes "YOUTHS" opposed to "MUSLIMS" are burning France RIGHT NOW.

Words are everything.

Canada, leaving doors unlocked? No way! Always lock mine, and double check it. May not be a gun issue, but an issue still with forced entries etc.. Not going to make it easier for someone to do so.

As for guns, gun control, I don't believe in gun control. The government needs to concentrate on taking the illegal guns off the street, and out of the hands of criminals. Not taking guns from responsible owners. Yes, makes for more guns in general, but it is the criminals out shooting people and robbing people using guns, guns with wiped out serial #'s, guns that are not registered. Responsible gun owners register their guns, keep them locked up, and just shoot them at a firing range or hunting. Yet, it is like the government sees responsible people as the root of the problem?

I have an issue in Canada, when it comes to knives. Switch blades, gravity knives, assisted opening knives. They are illegal here, solely on the premise that they open via a spring or one handed use. However, a knife is a knife. I can produce a fixed blade (legal) or folding blade (legal) knife just as swiftly and with just as deadly force as any switch blade. Heck, someone can get killed with a kitchen knife too. I really don't understand the laws against switch blades.

RedBaron wrote:

Neophyte wrote:do Canadian's really leave their front doors unlocked?!

Yes, the door to my house hasnt been locked in 5 years or so that I can recall.

Don't go tell anyone though.

My doors are left unlock, and i leave the keys in the ignition of my truck that I park in the garage and use every day.

And my friends, that is the truth!