Trippy

[SLIDER]

You know what even if they did release documents right from the desk of the President in the Whitehouse you guys aurgueing against all this would still not believe it & call it more conspiracy theory fabricated by a bunch of quacks! So WHATEVER believe what you want!

[SLIDER]

You know what folks i'm sorry if i have offended anyone. As someone told me it is all a matter of perspective as to which way one will think on this mystery. Mine as you can tell from previous posts is what it is! I feel remorse for the lives lost in this tragedy. & what people gave to their fellow citizens in their time of need. I pray to the GOOD LORD above that it wasn't done all in vain & that it isn't a conspiracy or coup or whatever you want to call it. Having said that nothing has been done in vain, as regardless of how these people were placed in the situations they were in they had people (emergency response people, military, & even people who couldn't commit physically but financially) who were willing to step up regardless of terrorists performing the acts or whichever agencies may have partaken in the CRUEL deeds. No one deserves this kind of treatment, period. This is the bottom line on this. I think in a world of such corruption anything is possible!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=9;


This is not meant to preach just a reminder of things to come depending once again on your personal beliefs and the corruption & chaos yet to come of which i pray we can all avoid & will avoid if our beliefs are the same in the Lord & Saviour.

[warf]

THe part about the bombs in that last video was pretty weak.

Read this:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... page=1&c=y

Isn't that exactly what I just said?

Roger that! I have a short attention span!!

[Crappy Pants]

Ya'll have more crap in your pants than I do.

It's disgusting that right and wrong have been so disguised by idiots over the last 30 years that we actually buy loose minded crap by the gallon.

To actually think that bad guys are not out there aiming for each of us and that Uncle Sam is somehow responsible is absolute crap.

A bunch of women.

Bad guys did the dead, accept it, and when they get the chance they'll do it again, perhaps in Canada next time, or somewhere else.

Nixon, Watergate, Hippies, and Bush did it all. Crap. Crap in my pants.

It is what it is, terrorism by Islamic Terrorists who want your wife to cover her body 24/7, who don't care what you think, and will slice your throat and spill your blood like a goat because their god told them to in their Satanic book.

[Baron[CotC]]

Ya'll have more crap in your pants than I do.

It's disgusting that right and wrong have been so disguised by idiots over the last 30 years that we actually buy loose minded crap by the gallon.

To actually think that bad guys are not out there aiming for each of us and that Uncle Sam is somehow responsible is absolute crap.

A bunch of women.

Bad guys did the dead, accept it, and when they get the chance they'll do it again, perhaps in Canada next time, or somewhere else.

Nixon, Watergate, Hippies, and Bush did it all. Crap. Crap in my pants.

It is what it is, terrorism by Islamic Terrorists who want your wife to cover her body 24/7, who don't care what you think, and will slice your throat and spill your blood like a goat because their god told them to in their Satanic book.

Someone believes everything they see on TV.

To actually think that everyone in government is a saint and only trying to look out for the best interests of their fellow man is absolute crap.

You arent supposed to believe your government without question. The entire idea behind democracy is that government is held accountable and we constantly monitor what theyre doing to keep it that way.

I don't care which way you go on this argument, theres no excuse for government cover-ups. Security Tapes and the like need to be released so the answers can be found -- and then this can be put to rest.

[Crappy Pants]

That's just cracked crap imho.

Since when did it become suspect to believe what's evident, and assume something was afoot in all situations by default?

Are we to actually believe that, according to this argument, that all things are bad first, and only rarely is conspiracy and negative influence not involved? That's crap in my pants for sure!

No. The argument is, show concrete evidence that a conspiracy is afoot first, and then I'll take notice.

As for me, I'm not going around living my life with blinders on, the blinders of mistrust, suspicion, and paranoia. I don't believe the USA or Western cultures are inherently evil. I do believe Islamic Terrorists are evil, Satanic, and part of a death cult.

To argue against the facts of the death cult, in favor of somehow Western cultures being worse than there evident foe is not only counterproductive to the civilization in which we live and communicate, but part and parcel of suicidal instablility.

I have crap in my pants. BBL.

[Nemesis[CotC]]

No. The argument is, show concrete evidence that a conspiracy is afoot first, and then I'll take notice.

We're on the same page.

I saw, with my own eyes, jetliners slamming into buildings. They weren't cruise missles. Did anyone find anything of those planes bigger than a matchbox?

Has anyone ever seen what happens to a car in an accident at 150mph? Little tiny pieces, except for the tires and main engine parts.

Now, imagine all that at 600mph. With fire. And everything aluminum.

That PA crash? A big hole in the ground, and hardly anything bigger than your hand.

Jet engines, when released from their mountings, become big bombs of titanium. They are already spinning at 20k+ RPM, and almost explode when they ingest birds.

But no, Baron, I do not trust my government in most anything. They are made of humans, and humans are not perfect. Look at Duke Cunningham. A hero if ever there was one. Now in the Big House because of his greed. And other of his type have ascended higher. Once having tasted power, they crave more, and forget how it came to pass that they ascended to power. The Democrats discoverd this 12 years ago. The Republicans are going to discover it soon enough.

Only the most craven sociopath could have planned this evil deed. And only the worst, soulless creatures could have carried it out. And considering how even the smallest of misdeeds seem to find their way immediately into the press, the likelihood of 100% complete secrecy is vanishingly small. Occam's Razor.

BD - there is still dust all over Manhattan from this crime. If there were explosives used, the dust will contain residues. Enough to be detected. And the residues only come from explosives, so they would not be there by chance. That would be evidence.

[Neophyte]

...
Bad guys did the dead, accept it, and when they get the chance they'll do it again, perhaps in Canada next time, or somewhere else.

...

They did the deed with the dead?! Goodness, we're screwed if we don't retalliate and prevent any more of this type of action on our soil. That's just nasty! Disgusting! Canada, did you hear that? You're dead are next!



I'm just havin' fun with the words Craps. Only jokes, nothin' personal bro.

[Neophyte]

...
I don't care which way you go on this argument, theres no excuse for government cover-ups. Security Tapes and the like need to be released so the answers can be found -- and then this can be put to rest.

Exactly. I hate the Fib, I mean FBI for taking tapes and not releasing them. They claim it's a matter of "National Security" to hide the tapes away. Excuse me for living, but isn't this MY nation too? Don't these guys draw a paycheck from the taxes collected by the work that I do? That's the one part that I really hate about government when s#1T like that happens. It makes me want to impeach, vote everyone in power right out of their office.

[Dataspel]

Neo said: It makes me want to impeach, vote everyone in power right out of their office.

I am not going to vote for another one of these Republican
losers for the next 10 years. And the Democrats are even
worse. So either the Libertarian or Green party will be
getting my vote, though I may as well flip a coin for all the
difference it will make in Texas.

It took the Democrats 40 years in contol of congress to reach
a high level of corruption and self interest. The Republicans
said they could do better --- and sure enough, after less than 15
years they are just as bad as the Democrats

[Aide-de-Camp]

Personally, I don't plan on voting against any one party because I don't want more or less of any particular evil. I've become so apathetic based on the inaction I've seen I would also swing toward a 3rd or 4th party; however, not at the cost of letting other criminals of a worse caliber gain a foothold.

Instead I pray for a Nationalist Party to emerge. God, country, apple pie, and everything red white and blue. This will take place after the next huge terrorist attack, but not until. In the meantime each political party will jockey for position and run rampant.

My fear though, is that the Nationalist theme we end up with will be more right and radical if not kin to Fascism. That being written, it would be the most efficient and sure way to dispatch the nations ills.

This might be more like Lincoln assuming wide spread powers through the military and private institutions in order to ensure stability in the North, which he did, and which worked. After the fact we in shock that a sitting President assumed such powers, but he did return them to the Congress, the States, and even the South.

The question is now, would a modern politician, corrupt and evil from either of the current political machines be able to return such power?

[KrAzYdAvE]

Has anyone ever seen what happens to a car in an accident at 150mph? Little tiny pieces, except for the tires and main engine parts.

Now, imagine all that at 600mph. With fire. And everything aluminum.

That PA crash? A big hole in the ground, and hardly anything bigger than your hand.

Jet engines, when released from their mountings, become big bombs of titanium. They are already spinning at 20k+ RPM, and almost explode when they ingest birds.

there's a video... ah yes here it is... mind the popups of course..
http://www.jokaroo.com/extremevideos/plane_vs_wall.html

This shows an f4 phantom hitting a concrete wall at 500mph... it atomized on contact...
I can't see any reason why any other airplane going that speed wouldn't do exactly the same.


And for those of you who may want to jump down my throat for any of the things I'm posting, piss off.
I'm not saying anyone did or didn't do anything.
I'm just posting info that to me, makes perfect scientific sense of why some things happen the way they did.
I can't say I can explain all things. Alot of things do seem fishy indeed! But I'd say the majority of it is a conspiracy brought on by those people who don't want to believe scientific data. Or those who try to back it up by using a "scientific website gravity simulator"or the likes lol (that was a pretty lame experiment IMO)... some people are obviously being overly paranoid.

I'm not saying we should trust our government, but we also don't need to think that everything that is done is a coverup for something else.

[warf]

Wow, that was a cool video!

I'm with you on this KD.

I did also get a kick out of the gravity simulator.

[Neophyte]

KD, that jet didn't carry any fuel aboard. The impact and fragmentation would have looked worse if it did. The fire that you see was from the rocket sled.

But I agree with you on all points. The context at which someone describes an even must be taken into consideration. I know that you or I or Lukestr would hear an explosion that rattles windows and shakes walls as something harmless. Shocking no? While others might think that it was a bomb or a car crashing into the building. When you consider the location of an Air Force Base that regularly has aircraft that transcend the subsonic to supersonic barriers, we would know it's just a sonic boom, and nothing to panic about. Slider was talking about Fire fighters that heard bombs or explosions. And a sealed water bottle bursting might qualify as this sound. Or an aerosol can might offer the illusion of additional bombs. But only to someone a wall away from these events, as they would be much to small to transfer enough vibration into the building to be heard many floors away. When taken in context to a building's columns whose stripped of it's fire retardant materials and it's support columns are bending and twisting, tons of concrete shattering falling overhead, and floors pancaking... These sounds, happening at seperate times, would be heard throughout the building. Linked through the elevators shafts like long transmission lines for sound. And would be quite frightening to someone in a rescue situation where a passenger jet recently flew into the building. I perfectly understand how someone could compare these sounds to that of an explosion or bomb. But then, we must keep things in proper context, and not draw conclusions. Because words can be misleading and draw different conclusions.

[KrAzYdAvE]

Yeah, it would have looked worse indeed, but the point was to show people how a large metal object, engines and all can atomize when hitting something that solid. Alot of people seem to think that the engines should always survive an impact, but I think that should help them to understand a little better about the physics of metal hitting other hard objects at such a velocity.
The only reason I know that metal can basically atomize is because I remember looking at a 1/2" plate of steel that I had just fired a round clean through with a .308 rifle. I noticed that the metal around the bullet hole looked as though it has turned into a liquid state from the round. It kinda made me realize that the whole reaction of that bullet hitting the metal and turning it into liguid state happened in a split second. That was my first lesson on something being atomized...

As far as the bombs before hand, I agree that alot can be misperceived. Thats something that I really can't vouch on though because there's not really enough evidence that I would say proves anything. The audio recordings of the office where you hear two booms doesn't really prove much to me nor the video footage. The reason for that being that at those distances, they can't really accuratly time audio to actual happenings due to the speed of sound and how long it takes to hit them. I would imagine that even if you were directly below the tower when a plane hit, you'd see the plane hit but it'd be about a second later before you heard the boom from the collision. I haven't looked to confirm this on those ground zero videos, but I can't imagine it not happening like that. The second booms could have been caused by alot of things. The one that makes the most sense to me would be elevators plunging 80some floors to the basement. Those towers were basically a ring of offices surrounding a huge column of elevators. I can't see how none of those elevators would have been damaged from the impact. Now granted I do know that elevators have emergency stops should cables break etc, but given the odds, I could definately see one failing. And it'd only take one to make a very big boom when it hit the bottom. Just watch the falling elevator on mythbusters sometime and you'll see what I mean. That was only 8 storys IIRC but the sound it made was pretty incredible.
Unfortunately in something like this where there's so many factors involved, its hard for me to take someone's word for them hearing a bomb before hand.

Not saying that there couldn't have been a bomb before hand, but I still havent seen anything that proves beyond a doubt that there was. At this point it's all hearsay...